Heat on board your boat

[William Matley]

I would like to hear from those boat owners who have had to address the issue of heat on board your boat.

Every spring I spend a week living on the boat doing a winters worth of projects.

I have tried electric heat and propane but for sheer ease of use, electric is the best choice.
My problem is that the electrical draw of a small electric heater is about all of the current I can draw with out blowing the panel breaker.

This setup is less than ideal with the V berth ending up pretty cold and the aft berth even colder!

The mathematics of current draw is hard to deny and with the hot water heater and battery charger taking their share, electric resistance heat seems hard to add.

Before I go adding electrical power to the boat, I like to hear what others have done?

[stu jackson c34]

Bill

1. Electrical - it's a management issue. If you get enough electrical resistance heat into your cabins you have to be careful of two things: the total A.C. amperage as you noted with "other" electrical "things" working; and the wiring distribution based on where you plug in. It's relatively easy to turn a heater off when you need to turn on the hot water heater (no reason to leave the hot water heater on longer than 20 to 30 minutes at a time). This will avoid popping the main breaker. It's harder to figure out the loads on A.C. wiring, and you should be careful in tracing your A.C. wiring to assure that even if you have two separate heaters running they are not on the same branch wiring. ON our C34s the port side A.C. wiring is a separate wiring branch from the starboard side. Total load is on the A.C. breaker, of course, but I wouldn't put two heaters on one branch wiring line based on the wire sizes and the draw(s) of the heaters.

2. Diesel - Forced air or piped to coils with fans. Webasto and Espar make these.

3. Cabin heaters - They look "cool" but I haven't found ours to be worth anything. It's a nifty looking Force 10 kerosene (or diesel) requires alcohol to start up the burner (like an old alcohol stove), makes too much noise and most of the heat goes up the chimney. I try it once every few years and come to the same conclusion. There are some non-fossil fuel models that burn charcoal or wood which seem to have better reputations - don't have experience with those.

If you Google Webasto and Espar you'll find out a lot of info. Google them generally, then try a C36 and C34 website site Google to learn more about skippers' experiences.

Electrical heat is great if you're plugged in all the time or have a generator, but then there's the proverbial anchor out situation.

Stay warm!:)

[langweer2]

Bill,

I have faced the same issue. I have two small electric heaters that I use. One I got at West Marine that has a small fan on it. The other is an oil filled radiator type unit I got at home Depot. Given that my shore power is only 20 amps, I can't run both at full power, but when they're both at medium, I do get sufficient heat. With 30 amp service, I could run both at full power and be quite toasty. Like Stu said, you've got to consider electrical power management.

My boat came with a Volvo 041D heater (now being built by Webasto). Unfortunately, it didn't work and wasn't worth fixing. I intend on installing a Wallas 40D diesel heater. From the research I've done, I think it is about the best unit available. It will fit in the storage area on the port side of the quarter birth. (A Webasto unit will fit there as well). Running the duct work can be a bit of a challenge - especially if your icebox has extra foam insulation, but then that gives you another little project to work on during your winter work week!

[William Matley]

Stu and Mark, thanks for your thoughts!

I wanted to be sure I had looked at all of the options you mentioned and I had concluded, like you, that electrical is indeed a management issue. I looked at the wall mounted cabin heaters but the fuels (diesel, propane, solid fuel) each have their own problems. Besides getting the heat to the ends of the boat seems pretty tough job.

Diesel fuel heaters look like well made equipment but when I need the heat most, is while I am sitting in my slip (mid May to early June). While at anchor I use a "Mr Heater" portable heater attached by a 12 foot hose to a 20 lb propane tank that I place in the cockpit. I put the heater on the top step of the ladder and there is plenty of fresh air to keep the heater happy. It's not ideal form of heat but the heater is small and easy to stow with the added feature of being able to screw on a 1lb propane tank for a chilly morning.

My shore power is 30 amp with 2 connections for each slip. Mark, your use of an oil filled heater is interesting to me because electrical heat is so dry, I am very uncomfortable after a night with electrical forced air heat running in the V berth. Oil radiant heater would be much quieter and not nearly so dry.

Propane flame heat produces water as a byproduct of combustion but of course the co2 is always a concern.

All of this heat business eventually takes me back to electric heat. It's clean, relatively safe and plenty of fuel available if I can solve the management problem.
With enough power available at my slip I can run 3 electric heaters and a sonic humidifier for humidity control.

Looks like power upgrade will be added to my spring "to do" list.

Thanks for the help.

[Steve Frost]

I find when it is quite cold (California cold 35-40F) running the engine until it gets up to full temp causes the engine to radiate heat for hours. This does a fair job of keeping the aft berth warm and the West Marine electric heater takes care of the main cabin.

Fiberglass does a great job of radiating cold when the temp drops, My wife refuses to spend the night on the boat with me, I am thinking I should bring one of my black labs up to keep me warm, though they shed more than my wife.

I had suggested that a small circulating pump could be installed in the cooling water circuit for the engine heat exchanger, this could be used to preheat the engine using the hot water from the water heater. Hybrid cars do this to keep the temps up on the engine when using battery propulsion.

Another thought I had about using a recirculating pump on the hot water side would be the to install a water radiator and fan, West Marine sells these as Hydronic Heater kits. They come in 28,000 or 40,000 BTU units. They include plumbing ducts and fans. You would need to buy the recirculation pump. This would allow you to use the hot water heater as a heat source in you are running it all the time any way, and under way you could use the engine as the heat source.

[scottfree]

Found that by closing the Dorade vents in the main cabin it is much easier to heat the boat with a 5kw electric heater. Other wise it just wouldn't happen.
Scottfree
Bridgman,MI

[Gary Bain]

I use a Dyno-Glo portable propane heater with a ceramic plate and a low oxygen sensor. Can hook to a larger tank via hose or the unit has provisions to store a cylinder within the casing. Also has a safety switch should it tip over. I keep it under the port side table so that as the heat rises and it pushes out sideways from under the table and slows the rise. Gives off about 4000-8000 BTU's . It keeps the boat warm for our climate here in Maine. Stows in a nice carrying case on the shelf behind the companionway. I had one of the Force 10 heaters in my old boat and that was not a very good source of heat.

I like the idea of shutting the dorades. I believe that I need to spend a bit of time there though as the plates tend to just spin. Anyone ever correct that issue?

[Allan R]

Amazon is selling Dyna-Glo RMC-8000PGH Tag-A-Long Portable Heater, Liquid Propane for $63 if anyone is interested. Seems to be a good price from what I can see from other sellers.

[Spanki]

Gets pretty cold in NE Okla. We've wired 2 30 amps Plugs, breakers and installed on stbd. side outboard of swim step. One is for w/h and 16k btu a/c, the other is to outlets and charger. We use 2 ceramic heaters (Holmes brand from wal-mart, $18.00 ea.) set on their lower heat setting and seem to get better heat throughout boat. We aloso have a "MR. BUDDY" propane heater just like the Dyna-Glow we wore out. With all this going we keep Spanki above 70 when it's below 32 outside at dock and with just the propane we keep her at about 65 while at anchor. We have put pour in place foam in the v-berth space between the hull and the ceiling on port and starboard sides and added ceiling (coffee bean wood) to this area, no more condensation on this area! Russ:):)

[William Matley]

Spanki,

Thanks for your reply, what you have done on your boat is just what I was thinking of doing to mine this spring.

I just hoped to hear that someone else had added a second power connection.

On my boat, several years ago I put a new power connection in the anchor locker. I converted this entry point into my primary power connection and I added a new master cut off switch to the inside of my V berth hanging locker and turned off, the aft power connector.

It only made sense to do this, I always go "bow in" in any slip I enter, I can keep a small 25 ft cable in the anchor locker, when I anchor out I move the cable to the cockpit locker. I hated hauling that 50 ft power cable and laying along the side of my boat. It seemed dumb to have the cable running all the way to the aft of the boat. My new power connection is very clean looking and I like that a lot.

When I started this thread I was looking for ideas. After reading what I could find and listening to this discussion I had decided to add a second circuit by reactivating the aft connector and wiring 3 new outlets that would be dedicated to this second 30 amp circuit. Three small electric heaters, easy to store, easy to use and safe, is my solution to the need for spring and fall heat.

This circuit will only be active when I run the 2nd long power cable otherwise the outlets will be dead.

In the V berth I am looking at the possibility of using an electric blanket in combination with a very small electric heater. Condensation is a problem and I am glad you mentioned it. I don't think I'll use a foam barrier but the dry heat of an electric heater should solve that.

While at anchor, condensation in the V berth is a problem, I'd like to hear what others do to deal with it.

[Steve Frost]

I know that those of you living int the higher latitudes will not be to sypathetic about this but, I spent the night on the boat this last Saturday. The weather was faily balmy for January during the day, no wind and temps near 60F. That night was clear calm and cold for the area, the temp droped to the low fourties and high thirties. Nothing for you northerners, but brisk for us mid west coasters.

I left the boat open after an afternood of motor sailing. Got back to the boat around 11:30, closed up and turned on the little West Marine heater to the medium high setting. I had read Scottfree's suggestion of closing the dorade vents, I was ashamed that I had not thought of such a simple solution. I stuffed a couple of hats in the holes thinking it would be nice and toasty but, it did not help much that I noted. I did see some fair gaps around the companion way hatch, maybe something stuffed in there would help as well.

The heater was on all nite and did not keep up well. I pulled an extra sleeping bag over my bed roll and it was warm enough in the berth, but it is still surprising how well fiberglass radiates cold. I will just count my blessings that I am not brushing snow off the top of the boat or on the hard for the winter.

For those of you using propane radiant heaters, please keep in mind that they do consume oxygen and produce carbon monoxide, we would not want your nice warm nap to be your last.

[mutualfun]

Steve:

That is like rubbing salt in a wound to us northerners. You could at least said ya had some ice on the boat or something like that.
Randy

[garrisne]

My boat (1986 MK1) had an aftermarket 16 BTU AC added with a second 30A wire stuck through a hole into the forward locker directly to the unit. I rewired this through a proper connection into a fuse box. Later, when redoing the ductwork, I discovered that the AC is actually a heatpump, and it will keep the boat toasty even when the Rappohannock River, where she is docked, is frozen over, and the outside temperature is in the teens to low 20's. Even though the river is frozen, the water under the ice is at least 4 degrees C (upper 30's F).

[Steve Frost]

Geeze Randy I did state there was no wind, it is not like there was not any hardship.

Yesteday the temps hit 77F on the bay and the wind was blowing 15-20 kts. I was working of course.
This all sounds good but I have no idea what we will drink this summer if we do not turn winter back on.

[plaineolde]

I see the Buddy heaters mentioned fairly often. I have one of these I use in my workshop. Do you sleep with one of these heaters on? I'd be afraid to do that, but maybe with a carbon monoxide sensor?? I'd love to put a diesel heater on board, but they aren't cheap nor easy to install with all the ductwork, but they would be safer in my mind. I love to sail in the fall on the Chesapeake, but it does get cold at night. Jumping out of the sleeping bag in the morning wakes me up faster than I like.

[jmontani]

I am aslo in a 2 service config. Air Conditioner w/ rev. cycle heat on one service and the rest of the house on the other.

I was also fighting the "rain forrest" in the V berth in the spring.

As far as condesation...

I have installed a Nicro Day/night stainless solared powered vent in the main hatch. The fan is set to pull air out of the boat.

Also I am using a Air Dryer Dehumidifier set on the forward shelf of the V Berth (by the anchor locker.) It is a 10" diameter disc and has worked very well for me. It doesn't require a condensation drain since it basically raises the temperature a few degrees to dry the air. I have it plugged into a timer so it is only running about 6 - 8 hours a day. This set up eliminated my condensation issue.

At anchor is another discussion. Unless you can get heat up there, it would be very difficult to control moisture.

At anchor I have used a propane catalytic tent heater while we are awake and shut it off before going to bed. The canister lasts about 5 hours and will keep the boat in the mid 60s. I did purchase a battery powered carbon monoxide detector (home section of Wal-mart) that we keep up in the v-berth (shelf above the closet) while it is in use. Probably really cheap insurance on top of any sensor your unit would come with. Not sure if I would run one while sleeping. Some people use them and keep a few hatches slightly cracked, but to each their own.

[Bill Colmer]

The Admiral has ordered that we will install some sort of heat for off season trips. After a lot of research I have come to the conclusion that this would be my first choice. The problem being that it's the most expensive type of heat you can get, apparently. This thing has it's own air inlet and exhaust, but it's small and efficient.
http://www.suremarineservice.com/TSL17SW-12.aspx
From the literature on their site, it uses .2 gallons of diesel fuel an hour. It was apparently originally designed to keep engines warm. The effect is that you will have a warm engine,almost constant hot water in the water heater, heat more or less on demand wherever you put the heat exchangers w/fans. The fact that you don't have to run anything larger than two hoses makes it preferable to trying to route air ducts.

[plaineolde]

I'm wrestling with whether to put in a hot water vs hot air system. I may put in A/C one of these days, in which case I could use the duct work for both. But running pipe for hot water certainly seems a lot easier; and you get a hot shower..! But hot air helps dry wet things; and pulls in fresh air. But the hot water.....:rolleyes:

You see my dilemma.

[LCBrandt]

I went with an Espar forced air furnace that has performed perfectly since installation new in 2002. I reasoned that a forced air furnace would allow for more fresh air to be cycled through the boat, thus lessening the potential for mildew. Valid??? I'm not sure. What do you think?

BTW, I purchased the Espar from Boat Electric in Seattle, who struck me as absolute experts on marine-installed Espars. I would go back to them in a heartbeat if I needed parts or an overhaul of the unit. I haven't needed one darn thing, so far. They were very professional!