fin keel vs shoal draft

[jimd]

I am looking to buy a catalina 36. I wanted a fin keel but really like a boat that has a shoal draft. will I be disapointed with it. I intend on coastal cruising as well as bay sailing. Any advise would be appreciated.

[rubyblu]

I just purchased a 1995 Catalina 36 MKII with a Wing Keel. I originally wanted a Fin Keel, but fell in love with the boat and bought it. They both have their advantages, but I do not believe you will be disappointed with a Schoal Keel. One thing I will tell you is that Catalina made the 36 with a Schoal Keel, but a rudder that is about 1 foot longer than the keel. I found out about this the easy way as when I was doing a seatrial on the boat the previous owner went over a rock and it hit the Rudder and Bent the Steel shaft causing us to loose steering. He replaced it before I bought the boat, but we replaced it with a 2007 Rudder that is about 8 inches wider, but even with the Keel...

Keep this in mind.....

[deising]

Jim,

We have a 1999 shoal draft keel because to have the full fin keel would GREATLY impact out ability to use the boat in the very skinny waters around here (and much of FL and the Bahamas, I might add.) We recognize some loss in pointing ability and the extra weight, but it was a no-brainer choice for us.

I know there are sailors with deep-draft keels who "can" sail here and the Bahamas, but I have sailed in company with a few of them and they are much more limited than they will admit.

I was going to refute Ruby's comments about the rudder length being deeper than the keel until I read the whole post. When level on blocks, our rudder is about 2 inches shallower than the keel, which is too close for any comfort, but to shorten the rudder much further would leave the boat unmanageable when heeled in a stiff breeze.

What was that about boats being compromises?

[rubyblu]

Attached are two images of a 1995 Catalina MKII Rudder.

[deising]

Wow, even with the photo perspective making an accurate determination impossible, it sure looks like the one rudder is much deeper than the keel.

Like I said, Ruby, I was 'going' to refute your statement until I read how Catalina switched to a shorter rudder after an obvious initial mistake.

Thanks for posting those pics.

[jimd]

I failed to mention that the boat I am concidering is a mid 80's model. does that make any difference.

[StillaThrill]

Here's a profile shot of my 1987 shoal draft keel and original rudder. It looks like the keel and the rudder are about the same depth.

[deising]

Jim,

I guess the only safe way is to ask the question of the seller/broker and be sure that they understand the answer needs to be accurate or it is a deal breaker. My opinion is that having the rudder longer than the keel is just asking for trouble.

[Gunkholer 1889]

Could the keels have been switched? I had an 1989C27 and a 1992 C30 and they were both like my wing 2000C36. Gerry Douglas says its 2inches shorter

Chris Hansen
Lake Michigan

[LCBrandt]

jimd, once again, a member of the forum (you) has asked an excellent question - and the interest of a lot of us is peaked - but we don't have enough information to craft a thorough answer. "Coastal cruising and bay sailing" isn't definitive...you could be talking about Tampa Bay and the east coast of Florida, or the coast of Washington State and San Francisco Bay. These would elicit two radically different opinion sets. While the responding posts have all been from shoal draft owners, it would seem the assumption is that you're on the east coast. Is that so??? Your profile is silent on this, and I can find no other info about you.

Please provide a little more data about yourself, such as Where you intend to base the boat and Where you intend to sail. Also, do you intend to race? These are important background data that enable us to answer your question authoritatively.

Note to all forum users...it would be really helpful for all of us, and for you, if you offered a bit more info about yourelves. Hell, we're not trying to sell you anything...just trying to help.

[stu jackson c34]

jimd, Larry's quite correct in his suggestions. In addition to the moderator's suggestions here to post enough information about you, your boat and your conditions and situations, I ran across this link as one of the best I've ever seen on how to help us help you (we all have the same kinda issues on all Message Boards): http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=101369

[hilbre]

It is all a matter of preference and to some extent sailing conditions plus what you will do, cruise or race. Certainly the fin keel will point better but when I was shopping for Hilbre, I made the decision early on to buy a wing keel even though I could have used a fin. There is plenty of deep water on the West Coast and in Lake Mead.
There were hardly any wing keels in the West so I finished up buying Hilbre in the Gulf and shipping her back to Lake Mead. I do race once in a while and sometime view with envy other boats pointing ability but as I love to cruise more than race I am very happy with my decision.
Remember, no one will agree on the perfect boat, eveyone has a preference, it's all a matter of your lifestyle and the decision you make. Wing or fin, the C36 is a great boat to own.
John Meyer
Hilbre 2135 on Lake Mead, soon to join those Fleet 2 boats and their fin keels in Long Beach.

[jimd]

sorry guys for taking so long to respond. the boat will be morred in charleston sc. i intend to sail here as well as the east coast, florida, and points south. i will strickly cruise no racing. i am more concerned with seakindliness and pointing. although i like the added benifit of a shallow draft in this area im concered the shoal keel will exaggerate rolling motion in a seaway. i hope this helps you help me.

[bcam]

I have a wing keel with a rudder that is shallower than the keel. One of the pictures posted above has the semi-elliptical rudder that came later than '95. I don't believe that they were offered as stock on the wing keel boats.

My boat was originally sold to a man in Bellingham WA. Why he chose the wing keel, I have no idea. The water in the PNW is usually more than deep enough. I sail as crew on a Nelson Marek 68' that draws over 12'. We don't have a problem with depth.

If anyone has a deep keel that they want to trade for a wing, let me know. I wouyld love the better pointing ability and the ability to add the deeper, elliptical rudder.

[deising]

jimd,

With your stated cruising grounds and sailing style (cruising), I would heartily recommend the shoal draft wing keel. I read blogs every day from sailors with 5.5 ft+ draft boats cruising between Fl and the Carolinas who are bumping bottom, getting stuck, and having to time the tides to use the ICW.

[merrja]

Jim,

I have a cat 36 w/ a fin keel that I keep in Charleston and sailed to Florida (offshore not in the CW) in December. I have never run into any issues with the extra 12", but I have never taken the boat to the Bahammas.

Regards,
Jim